Comments on: Is Manipulating the DOM for Presentation Acceptable? http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/07/09/is-manipulating-the-dom-for-presentation-acceptable/ A resource for Web designers and developers to read about and discuss their craft. Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:29:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Year in Review: Highlights from 2007 - Monday By Noon http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/07/09/is-manipulating-the-dom-for-presentation-acceptable/#comment-1376 Year in Review: Highlights from 2007 - Monday By Noon Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:24:35 +0000 http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/07/09/is-manipulating-the-dom-for-presentation-acceptable/#comment-1376 [...] Is Manipulating the DOM for Presentation Acceptable? [...] [...] Is Manipulating the DOM for Presentation Acceptable? [...]

]]> By: dustin brewer - web design news and style » Blog Archive » Weekly link roundup for the week of July 9th http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/07/09/is-manipulating-the-dom-for-presentation-acceptable/#comment-1377 dustin brewer - web design news and style » Blog Archive » Weekly link roundup for the week of July 9th Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:05:15 +0000 http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/07/09/is-manipulating-the-dom-for-presentation-acceptable/#comment-1377 [...] last but not least Jon over at Monday by Noon has a great article on acceptable use of DOM scripting and the semantics of doing such. A good read that needs some feedback from the design community [...] [...] last but not least Jon over at Monday by Noon has a great article on acceptable use of DOM scripting and the semantics of doing such. A good read that needs some feedback from the design community [...]

]]> By: Jonathan Christopher http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/07/09/is-manipulating-the-dom-for-presentation-acceptable/#comment-1379 Jonathan Christopher Wed, 17 Oct 2007 12:45:10 +0000 http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/07/09/is-manipulating-the-dom-for-presentation-acceptable/#comment-1379 First and foremost I need to apologize for neglecting to comment as a follow-up on this article. @Dustin Brewer: I agree, if you're responsible in your use of JavaScript, things should work out well in the end as long as you're progressively enhancing. @Chris Barnes: While removing the JavaScript could remove unwanted functionality, you're still left with some markup bloat. In my opinion, if the markup used is at least semantic, when you remove the scripting you're still left with something to work with. @Aaron Gustafson: That makes a lot of sense, thanks very much for including your input! First and foremost I need to apologize for neglecting to comment as a follow-up on this article.

@Dustin Brewer: I agree, if you’re responsible in your use of JavaScript, things should work out well in the end as long as you’re progressively enhancing.

@Chris Barnes: While removing the JavaScript could remove unwanted functionality, you’re still left with some markup bloat. In my opinion, if the markup used is at least semantic, when you remove the scripting you’re still left with something to work with.

@Aaron Gustafson: That makes a lot of sense, thanks very much for including your input!

]]> By: Aaron Gustafson http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/07/09/is-manipulating-the-dom-for-presentation-acceptable/#comment-1378 Aaron Gustafson Tue, 16 Oct 2007 15:11:59 +0000 http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/07/09/is-manipulating-the-dom-for-presentation-acceptable/#comment-1378 In my opinion, one of the best ways to unobtrusively build JavaScript widgets is to come up with some sort of switch which triggers the widget-related CSS to apply once the JavaScript signals that it's ready to go. And as I usually classify elements which need widget-izing (since they may occur multiple times on a page), this usually involves <code>CLASS</code>-swapping. In other words, something classified as "tabbed" will be turned into something classified as "tabbed-on" and all of the widget-related selectors begin with <code>.tabbed-on</code> instead of <code>.tabbed</code> so styles aren't applied before they are actually appropriate. In my opinion, one of the best ways to unobtrusively build JavaScript widgets is to come up with some sort of switch which triggers the widget-related CSS to apply once the JavaScript signals that it’s ready to go. And as I usually classify elements which need widget-izing (since they may occur multiple times on a page), this usually involves CLASS-swapping. In other words, something classified as “tabbed” will be turned into something classified as “tabbed-on” and all of the widget-related selectors begin with .tabbed-on instead of .tabbed so styles aren’t applied before they are actually appropriate.

]]> By: Chris Barnes http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/07/09/is-manipulating-the-dom-for-presentation-acceptable/#comment-1375 Chris Barnes Tue, 17 Jul 2007 00:06:22 +0000 http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/07/09/is-manipulating-the-dom-for-presentation-acceptable/#comment-1375 I've only recently started adding extra presentational elements/classes via the DOM, and I had similar thoughts to you when someone first suggested it. I agree with you that presentational elements are no better when added in by scripting than when they're in the original (X)HTML. But the reason I've started using them is that, if you're doing a site redesign, you don't have to remove all the extra non-semantic markup from your pages. You just delete the script that creates it from one .js file and it's gone for good... Another advantage to scripting presentational elements is overall page "weight" when downloading - if you include extra non-semantic markup in your (X)HTML it gets downloaded every time one of your pages downloads. Any scripts that generate that same markup will only be downloaded once as part of the site's .js file, decreasing page download times (which is supposed to be one of the benefits of using semantic (X)HTML in the first place). I’ve only recently started adding extra presentational elements/classes via the DOM, and I had similar thoughts to you when someone first suggested it.
I agree with you that presentational elements are no better when added in by scripting than when they’re in the original (X)HTML. But the reason I’ve started using them is that, if you’re doing a site redesign, you don’t have to remove all the extra non-semantic markup from your pages. You just delete the script that creates it from one .js file and it’s gone for good…
Another advantage to scripting presentational elements is overall page “weight” when downloading – if you include extra non-semantic markup in your (X)HTML it gets downloaded every time one of your pages downloads. Any scripts that generate that same markup will only be downloaded once as part of the site’s .js file, decreasing page download times (which is supposed to be one of the benefits of using semantic (X)HTML in the first place).

]]> By: Dustin Brewer http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/07/09/is-manipulating-the-dom-for-presentation-acceptable/#comment-1374 Dustin Brewer Sun, 15 Jul 2007 01:04:39 +0000 http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/07/09/is-manipulating-the-dom-for-presentation-acceptable/#comment-1374 I think that using DOM carefully with CSS is just fine, most web users don't care to disable javascript and as long as you ensure that you are appealing to all of the browsers (see: ie) then everything should go over just fine. I think it is a more then acceptable method to achieve the design implementation you are working on and can come in very handy when you are wanting to display or manipulate the way the web site works for the end user. I think that using DOM carefully with CSS is just fine, most web users don’t care to disable javascript and as long as you ensure that you are appealing to all of the browsers (see: ie) then everything should go over just fine.

I think it is a more then acceptable method to achieve the design implementation you are working on and can come in very handy when you are wanting to display or manipulate the way the web site works for the end user.

]]> By: Is Manipulating the DOM for Presentation Acceptable? · Style Grind http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/07/09/is-manipulating-the-dom-for-presentation-acceptable/#comment-1373 Is Manipulating the DOM for Presentation Acceptable? · Style Grind Thu, 12 Jul 2007 03:39:15 +0000 http://mondaybynoon.com/2007/07/09/is-manipulating-the-dom-for-presentation-acceptable/#comment-1373 [...] Is Manipulating the DOM for Presentation Acceptable? [...] [...] Is Manipulating the DOM for Presentation Acceptable? [...]

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